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Speed, saved queries, and entering data

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    Speed, saved queries, and entering data

    I have a now fairly large (12,000 record x 50,000 record) database. It's a parent and one to many child arrangement. Of course when I enter records into the child table--it's really slow. But when I query on the last 1000 records and save that query and execute it before I enter data, it can be blazingly fast during child entry. Unfortunately, there is no guarantee that the data gets written (for some reason) and data is lost. Or it ends up with a totally different record. Very mysterious.

    Has anyone seen this before? What about having an open query and entering records in that state? I did it in A5V5 and never had any problem. Now A5V11--yikes. I do recall reading something a while back regarding this..but can't find it now.

    #2
    Re: Speed, saved queries, and entering data

    Hello Dennis,

    Does your application still work in V5? Or have you rewritten the application in V11.

    If you have the V5 application copy, make a copy of V5 application. Open up the V5 copy in V11, and compact the application. Now open the compacted application in V11 and see if it does what you want it to do. If you made the sets correctly in V5 they should work in V11 if the application is the same. Have you changed your data entering form from its original design?

    Regards,

    Ed

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Speed, saved queries, and entering data

      Yes, the V5 works fine but I have started making cosmetic changes to the V11 model. There's very little 'code' in this app. It RUNS fine as long as you have no saved queries in effect. I have compacted and do so regularly since sometimes the indexes get wild. The sets are very straight forward..

      I should point out that I didn't 'rewrite' the application since most elements work fine. I have a couple of really simple drop downs that are agonizingly slow. I don't know why that is. The data entering is the same.

      Could be the network..which I don't control and wouldn't know if that's impacting the operation. Maybe there's a metric I could use for that--but don't know what it would be.

      As I said, if I do a query on a group of the parent records then the app appears/feels REALLY fast. It's just that when you get done with a record it may or may not retain the child records entered and that's scary business. Sometimes, I don't know where those go. Other times they are applied to an older record..like way old. And that's scary too.
      Last edited by Dennis Mathias; 06-26-2013, 10:42 AM. Reason: I wasn't clear..

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Speed, saved queries, and entering data

        Hi Dennis,

        From the way you are describing things, it would be beneficial to send in a stripped down copy of your application. Make a copy of it, and take out the data if needed. Upload it here. That way the message board can take a look at the structure and help you out.

        How do you have it networked? A dedicated server, with the application on it? Are you using shadowing, where your forms, etc are in each runtime PC? Sounds like you have different things happening not just one.

        Regards,

        Ed

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Speed, saved queries, and entering data

          I'll see if I can get to sending in a copy of the app. Taking out the data would not be a good idea because with a small table application its fast. It is networked on a server and the application is local on each machine via runtime. No shadowing..I could and have but I'm hesitant since it could be a liability. Forms are pulled off the server..to each runtime PC.

          Wouldn't surprise me a bit to find that I have a couple of different issues. The forms load almost instantly. It's just the data input that is slow.

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Speed, saved queries, and entering data

            Originally posted by Dennis Mathias View Post
            Could be the network..which I don't control and wouldn't know if that's impacting the operation. Maybe there's a metric I could use for that--but don't know what it would be.
            This might not apply, but it's the first thing I think of when someone says data loss with file shared ISAM databases.

            Are you by any chance using Windows Vista/7 or Sever 2008/2008R2? The data loss / wild index problems sound ever so like some of the bugs with SMB 2. Microsoft has some hotfixes, why they haven't put these out as updates I don't understand.

            If so, take a look here for a guide to what hotfixes you might need: http://www.caseware.com/support/caseknowledge/kb-271

            There's another fix here that will turn off some more SMB 2 caching if you still have problems: www.alaska-software.com/fixes/smb2/overview.shtm

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Speed, saved queries, and entering data

              Originally posted by jacobe View Post
              This might not apply, but it's the first thing I think of when someone says data loss with file shared ISAM databases.

              Are you by any chance using Windows Vista/7 or Sever 2008/2008R2? The data loss / wild index problems sound ever so like some of the bugs with SMB 2. Microsoft has some hotfixes, why they haven't put these out as updates I don't understand.

              If so, take a look here for a guide to what hotfixes you might need: http://www.caseware.com/support/caseknowledge/kb-271

              There's another fix here that will turn off some more SMB 2 caching if you still have problems: www.alaska-software.com/fixes/smb2/overview.shtm

              Uh, yes we are. The reason I went to V11 was because we updated to Windows 7. That is when the problem started but of course I blamed V11 and not Win 7.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Speed, saved queries, and entering data

                Originally posted by Dennis Mathias View Post
                Uh, yes we are. The reason I went to V11 was because we updated to Windows 7. That is when the problem started but of course I blamed V11 and not Win 7.
                Well, I would say give the hotfixes a try and let us know how it goes!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Speed, saved queries, and entering data

                  I think you can really help your self with shadowing the app. Once shadowed, all that is needed is a data stream which may not be that large as compared to both data and all the other. Just copying files does not help. The runtime knows if it is NOT shadowed and auto looks at the server folder.

                  Index issues? I would like to see a copy of the indexes you have. I have found many issues that could be fixed pretty easy and some not so easy.

                  Remember, with no shadowing, all indexing has to be on the server. If you have several users, it compounds.
                  Dave Mason
                  [email protected]
                  Skype is dave.mason46

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Speed, saved queries, and entering data

                    I second Dave's suggestion - shadow it.

                    I would be interested in whether anyone has applied and tried the "SMB" solution. I tried it maybe two years ago, and it doubled the time for everything - slowed significantly.

                    Also, interestingly enough, that client has 667 tables, with about 590 of them having indexes, and I have never run into index corruption or data loss.

                    My warning/alert is that going from V5 to V11 is a super-major jump. The odds that everything will work are slim to none. I suspect that that is the issue, or the app itself, the coding, etc.
                    Cole Custom Programming - Terrell, Texas
                    972 524 8714
                    [email protected]

                    ____________________
                    "A young man who is not liberal has no heart, but an old man who is not conservative has no mind." GB Shaw

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Speed, saved queries, and entering data

                      As per Martin.

                      I jumped from 5 to 7 and it worked ok. When I went through all the code(written and other), it speeded up a great deal. When taking that same 40 table app to v11, I had the same experiences.

                      I don't have index issues because they are simply used as indexes, not filters or barriers and all are 10 characters or less. It is possible for index corruption in any app if there is errant code too though. That is why I asked for a snapshot of the indexes.
                      Dave Mason
                      [email protected]
                      Skype is dave.mason46

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Speed, saved queries, and entering data

                        I think the "corruption" the one fellow is talking about is due to "opportunitistic record locking." If that is the cause, then index names and types would be irrelevant. It assumes a client-server arrangement, which Alpha dbf is not.

                        PS: the indexes are maintained on the server, whether shadowed or not.
                        Cole Custom Programming - Terrell, Texas
                        972 524 8714
                        [email protected]

                        ____________________
                        "A young man who is not liberal has no heart, but an old man who is not conservative has no mind." GB Shaw

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Speed, saved queries, and entering data

                          It assumes a client-server arrangement, which Alpha dbf is not.
                          This is why shadowing.


                          My reference to indexes was not aimed at the corruption, but at the speed issue. I just did not make it clear.

                          Going back a bit. Why would the shadow copy over the *.cdx files if there was no bearing at the user's shadow? I just would like to know?
                          Dave Mason
                          [email protected]
                          Skype is dave.mason46

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Speed, saved queries, and entering data

                            they are pointers - look at their size

                            think about it - unless the indexes are maintained on the server, then there would definitely be corruption in a multiuser environ, whether shadowed or not
                            Cole Custom Programming - Terrell, Texas
                            972 524 8714
                            [email protected]

                            ____________________
                            "A young man who is not liberal has no heart, but an old man who is not conservative has no mind." GB Shaw

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Speed, saved queries, and entering data

                              I don't find any cdx files in a shadow directory after network optimizing. They could be copied manually from the server or they would exist if you have local tables in the shadow directory.
                              There can be only one.

                              Comment

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