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Thread: Fast On Computer BUT Crawls from Synology NAS

  1. #1
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    Default Fast On Computer BUT Crawls from Synology NAS

    I am hoping someone can tell me what I have not done or need to do to get some speed with the workspace stored on a Synology NAS. Needing some help here to figure out why a workspace that works super fast from a desktop when the workspace files are stored on the desktop yet goes super slow from the same desktop when accessing the workspace stored on a Synology NAS (6 or more seconds to respond on form field). I will admit I am a complete rookie, but so far have found nothing on the Forum that gets me anywhere. What am I missing? What do I need to do to get this not to crawl over the Synology NAS. Also the initial start-up is very slow in comparison. I am hoping it is something very obvious I am just missing. I am using the Desktop Platform Version 12.4.5.2 Build 4770.

    Thanks for any help in this matter.
    Patrick

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    "Certified" Alphaholic Stan Mathews's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fast On Computer BUT Crawls from Synology NAS

    I looked up the data transfer rate of one Synology NAS and found it listed as 112 MB/s. The equivalent SATA3 hard drive transfer rate seems to be 600 MB/s.
    There can be only one.

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    Default Re: Fast On Computer BUT Crawls from Synology NAS

    I think the operative letter in NAS is S(torage). Pretty much every write-up I've seen emphasizes that they are designed for backup rather than the sort of I/O operations you need to run an application.
    Finian

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    Default Re: Fast On Computer BUT Crawls from Synology NAS

    Hi Patrick,

    A Synology or any other NAS- type device is intended for storage - files that wont get accessed that often. Your I/O as pointed out doesn't compare to your desktop or what a server would deliver.

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    VAR Pat Bremkamp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fast On Computer BUT Crawls from Synology NAS

    Sounds to me like you have the drives set to spin down after some period of inactivity. The wait is time for them to get back up to speed. Find the setting to keep them spinning all the time.
    Pat Bremkamp
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    VAR Pat Bremkamp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fast On Computer BUT Crawls from Synology NAS

    Also, if you have your synology set to raid 5 or raid 10 it will be much faster.
    Pat Bremkamp
    MindKicks Consulting

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    Default Re: Fast On Computer BUT Crawls from Synology NAS

    Thanks for your quick input. I will definitely check into issue with NAS verses server. I think I will do some comparison on it and see if I experience faster response time on I/O.

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    Default Re: Fast On Computer BUT Crawls from Synology NAS

    I'll have my IT person verify that the spin down on the NAS is not occurring (at least during business hours). I have also done more testing and found the following:

    The amount of data being transferred from simply opening the database (.adb) and running a single query is around 275MB (bytes). It seems to me that this is a very large amount of data being sent/received to open a single record and modify a field (in this case a checkbox that updates two related records). I have tested this on a wireless (144Mbps), Gigabit LAN and local scenarios. The local and Gigabit scenarios are roughly the same waiting time of only a second or two. However, not all of the client PCs accessing the database currently have gigabit connections. Much, much slower on the normal connection.

    Is this a normal amount of data to be sent for a simple query such as this?
    Perhaps there is an optimization that needs to occur that I'm not aware of?

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    Default Re: Fast On Computer BUT Crawls from Synology NAS

    It is the nature of working with DBF's and their indexing system, that when you open a table an enormous amount of data moves across the system making a large part of the table available for scrolling, accessing, etc. I would recommend using Alpha on the fastest possible system and drives.

    I ran into an issue with an app I had running at a group of hospitals, back in version 8 where I was having a big lag opening a form and processing the info and then saving. A high level IT fellow used the most sophisticated monitoring tool I have ever seen to watch what was happening. As I duplicated the issue, and I watched the tool, an enormous amount of data was moving back and forth - of 50 megabytes - in just opening the form and populating it with data. I immediately decided that given what really happens (with the the OS and all the way down to the core processor as well as the language and data) it is a small miracle that it works at all!! Luckily, by modifying how I was doing things, I got it back to an expected speed.

    If you have a small app, like your wife's favorite recipes or similar, no big deal for your current system; but, if you have a full blown business app, take a different approach.
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    Default Re: Fast On Computer BUT Crawls from Synology NAS

    I'm looking to move some low usage in-house apps to a QNAP NAS (celeron powered) later this week.

    Tried this on a consumer level synology box for a client & that crawled along - You could see the record count incrementing painfully slowly when building reports, applying filters etc. I'm 99% sure the problem was processor as network and disk performance were fine for backups etc.

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    Default Re: Fast On Computer BUT Crawls from Synology NAS

    So what are the modifications that need to be done to increase to expected speeds?

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    "Certified" Alphaholic Ted Giles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fast On Computer BUT Crawls from Synology NAS

    Few questions.
    What Synology server?
    Are you using MONO?
    Are you running any VC software on your Synology?
    Do you run the whole application from the NAS or just the data?
    Is the folder in the NAS set as a network connected drive on your Desktop?

    I run a Synology via wifi and several distributed sata drives through a usb hub with no appreciable difference in speed.
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    Default Re: Fast On Computer BUT Crawls from Synology NAS

    The Synology is a DS1517+.
    We are not using MONO.
    We are not using any VC software.
    This is not a hosted alpha application, we are simply accessing the .DBF directly on the Synology via a mapped network drive.

    After researching, my assumption is the way we've implemented Alpha has been optimized poorly for network access. Do you have any recommendations to optimize this?

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    "Certified" Alphaholic Ted Giles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fast On Computer BUT Crawls from Synology NAS

    I'm on holiday until next Monday. Will reply then. Sorry for the delay, no wifi in the sticks
    Ted Giles
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    "Certified" Alphaholic Ted Giles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fast On Computer BUT Crawls from Synology NAS

    Patrick, the installation I have on a wireless connection to my Synology runs very fast.
    If you haven't done this already, create a network drive to the NAS, not through Quick Connect. Then copy all of the folders and files in your application to a specific folder on the NAS. You will need all of the files and not just the .dbf files.

    It will react in the same way as a locally attached SATA or SSD drive.
    I suspect you may have been trying to fire up the application in a different way.

    Anyway, let me know how you get on or if you have fixed the problem some other way. I have not tried using the NAS as a shared application using RunTime.
    Ted Giles
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    Default Re: Fast On Computer BUT Crawls from Synology NAS

    You may find using shadow databases on your work stations will improve performance. Lots of information on this in the help files.

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    Default Re: Fast On Computer BUT Crawls from Synology NAS

    Ted and Friends,

    My computer guy is telling me we are doing exactly as you have described on the network. I also am using shadow databases, but still getting a slow response. Again my computer guy is telling me that it is using up network resources on start up and any click on record for changing or adding new records. He believes the issue is the size of the query. It is eating up network resources.

  18. #18
    "Certified" Alphaholic Ted Giles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fast On Computer BUT Crawls from Synology NAS

    Can you show us the "Query".
    Also DS1517+. is at 2 gig as standard, so that will slow you up a bit unless you upgraded the RAM.
    Running Virus software will also slow things down.
    Can you check what else is running on the DS1517+?
    It is built to run applications and is indeed a server in it's own right, so it should handle a lot of traffic.

    This confuses me somewhat
    "The amount of data being transferred from simply opening the database (.adb) and running a single query is around 275MB (bytes). " That sounds like you are running the whole application from the DS.

    When using shadowed (or as used to be Network Optimised mode) the .adb is run on the local machine, NOT the server.

    So, please confirm you are running the application on the local machine and aren't using the .adb on the DS by mistake. That will cause a load of traffic which you don't need. This is the logical process if it helps.

    Logical RT.doc
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  19. #19
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    Default Re: Fast On Computer BUT Crawls from Synology NAS

    Definitely running with an shadow copy of of the database. This morning I double checked to make sure that it was the case and set it up again. I also did a workspace compact then set up a shadow again. Then went to entering records. The entry was running a bit faster on the initial go around, but the entry slowed as more records were entered. It is not a largely developed application. Basically have it open to a tabbed form where we enter most of our client records. I am wondering if I found an issue that may be slowing it down as normally with other applications I use I have indexes built on the table or set, but in this case the index from the order expression on the form. Would that slow it down?

  20. #20
    "Certified" Alphaholic Ted Giles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fast On Computer BUT Crawls from Synology NAS

    Probably.
    2 suggestions;
    First, move the index to the table. If the Filter and Order are set in the Form, they are being built each time a record is entered on the NAS.
    Second, send me a zipped copy to examine on my installation. I will send you a PM regarding this.
    Ted Giles
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  21. #21
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    Default Re: Fast On Computer BUT Crawls from Synology NAS

    I did follow the first suggestion, but did not see any improvement in record entry.

    Thanks for your second suggestion. I sent a zipped copy for your examination. Thanks!

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